Информационный портал POCKET  WIKI  FAQ  Поиск  Пользователи  Группы  Регистрация  Профиль  Войти и проверить личные сообщения  Вход How do I make Fiction books? На страницу Пред.  1, 2, 3  След.   Найти сообщения без ответов        Список форумов www.fictionbook.org -> FictionBook Format Предыдущая тема :: Следующая тема   Автор Сообщение vvv Автор редактора BookDesigner Зарегистрирован: 06.10.2004 Сообщения: 349 Добавлено: Пт Дек 16, 2005 21:58    Заголовок сообщения: Stranger писал(а): It is acceptable for many users to read a book made in a slipshod way, so what? Let the library be the cemetry of mangy texts? I think our goal is to try to teach users to make neat and accurate books, not to let them finally flood the library with untidy book-like somethings. And who will deside if the text is mangy or not? Who is so self-sure and so well-educated to dictate his rules to the others? Shortly, who will be a new Mao dressing everybody in blue? Вернуться к началу Stranger Модератор Зарегистрирован: 29.10.2004 Сообщения: 1479 Откуда: Москва Добавлено: Пт Дек 16, 2005 22:01    Заголовок сообщения: vvv писал(а): Who will be a new Mao dressing everybody in blue? BD-author? Nah, I think BD-author wants to be new Mahno, with "anarchy is mother of proper order" slogan Последний раз редактировалось: Stranger (Пт Дек 16, 2005 22:17), всего редактировалось 2 раз(а) Вернуться к началу vvv Автор редактора BookDesigner Зарегистрирован: 06.10.2004 Сообщения: 349 Добавлено: Пт Дек 16, 2005 22:14    Заголовок сообщения: Stranger писал(а): vvv писал(а): Who will be a new Mao dressing everybody in blue? BD-author? No, I am on the other side which prefers the freedom GribUser? He has a lot of experience in diiferent types of restrictions. And, it seems, he likes very much to invent them. But poor guy, he will need to write an automat which would be able to catch anything aside of his rules, crazy job... Вернуться к началу Stranger Модератор Зарегистрирован: 29.10.2004 Сообщения: 1479 Откуда: Москва Добавлено: Пт Дек 16, 2005 22:20    Заголовок сообщения: vvv писал(а): freedom Did you mean "chaos" as a matter of fact? Вернуться к началу GribUser Автор формата FB2 - Автор библиотеки FB Зарегистрирован: 30.09.2004 Сообщения: 2475 Откуда: Москва Добавлено: Пт Дек 16, 2005 22:58    Заголовок сообщения: vvv писал(а): BD and FBD allow the user to assign any valid style for any element (upper case, lower case, proper case, etc). So, if the user prefers the You miss the point. The problem is not in the title. That was just a way to find BD-made books. Open thouse documents and look, what is in there. THERE are the problems, title itself is the smallest problem. Добавлено спустя 1 минуту 39 секунд: vvv писал(а): He has a lot of experience in diiferent types of restrictions I have to admit I'm not good enough to prevent random BD output from entering the lib. Вернуться к началу vvv Автор редактора BookDesigner Зарегистрирован: 06.10.2004 Сообщения: 349 Добавлено: Сб Дек 17, 2005 0:46    Заголовок сообщения: GribUser писал(а): vvv писал(а): BD and FBD allow the user to assign any valid style for any element (upper case, lower case, proper case, etc). So, if the user prefers the You miss the point. The problem is not in the title. That was just a way to find BD-made books. Open thouse documents and look, what is in there. THERE are the problems, title itself is the smallest problem. I have told you ones: it is not a problem of BD itself, BD just keeps the input book style. And then the users choose themself what to do: to leave it "as it is", to adjust it according to ther tasts, etc. Something related to your sample. For example, do you really think that BD itself converted in the word "БОлшую" the letter "O" to the uppercase? And that it was done just to make you angry? Common, Dima. Yes, I do not like certain fb2 restriction. But I prefer rather to do some other things than to program a random letter generator Вернуться к началу GribUser Автор формата FB2 - Автор библиотеки FB Зарегистрирован: 30.09.2004 Сообщения: 2475 Откуда: Москва Добавлено: Сб Дек 17, 2005 1:32    Заголовок сообщения: vvv писал(а): I have told you ones: it is not a problem of BD itself, BD just keeps the input book style. The simple fact is: They use BD, they produce garbage. and that's all. If it can be fixed somehow - do fix it. If it's the only way things to happen - BD sucks. Just that simple. You are going to "blah-blah-blah"? Go ahead. But look at the text: Цитата: Чем более «высшая" математика Цитата: "ВСЕ ЕСТЬ ЧИСЛО" (one quote inside italic, another outside) and so on and so on... Just a heap of garbage instead of a pretty book. It's like you go to buy bread and get some once-eaten-thing instead. This thing is nice for someone, may be, but it's a bit misplaced, as well as most out-of-BD books. If somebody likes it - I do not care, let him use it and enjoy. But as soon as he presses "upload" button his taste becomes OUR problem... Oh, it's a waste of time... You just don't care that your BD is a real pain in the ass for others. Your users are happy to upload garbage - you are happy they use BD. Every day 15000 of my users get garbage instead of carefully made books? You simply do not care of that right? You like that garbage, so why not feed others with it? I have an idea for new BD version ads. Check this out: Цитата: Unleash fb2, don't let them stop you! Quality? Don't be a bore, quantity rulezz! No validator will stop you! 100% guarantee to flood any fb2-diven library. Freedom to make it BAD! Вернуться к началу vvv Автор редактора BookDesigner Зарегистрирован: 06.10.2004 Сообщения: 349 Добавлено: Сб Дек 17, 2005 2:39    Заголовок сообщения: GribUser писал(а): The simple fact is: They use BD, they produce garbage. The second simple fact is: the users of Any2FB2 also produce the garbage. The third simple fact is: the users of FBTools also produce the garbage. And so on... But the reality is as follows: if a book is created by the responsible person - it is ok, otherwise it is a garbage. To my observations, a lot of books from fictionbook.lib are not well done. Independently on the program with which the books were created. It is a fact, and you can do nothing with it: as soon as any person was allowed to add the books to the library, the control was lost. And the last one thing: mainly a book quality at the fictionbook.lib is worse than the quality of originals. For this reason I am practically always getting my books from original libraries. And then I am converting them to the format which I need. With BD Вернуться к началу GribUser Автор формата FB2 - Автор библиотеки FB Зарегистрирован: 30.09.2004 Сообщения: 2475 Откуда: Москва Добавлено: Сб Дек 17, 2005 3:58    Заголовок сообщения: vvv писал(а): To my observations, a lot of books from fictionbook.lib are not well done. Independently on the program with which the books were created. I have to say there are few (if any) responsible persons using BD. Don't know why. Untill BD started producing thouse valid garbage everything was under control. And that's is the problem I'm trying to make you to understand. Вернуться к началу vvv Автор редактора BookDesigner Зарегистрирован: 06.10.2004 Сообщения: 349 Добавлено: Сб Дек 17, 2005 4:37    Заголовок сообщения: GribUser писал(а): I have to say there are few (if any) responsible persons using BD. Don't know why. Untill BD started producing thouse valid garbage everything was under control. And that's is the problem I'm trying to make you to understand. I think it is a coincidence: many people started to make the books at the same time as BD started to produce the valid content. To be more precise, these people joined the community when the Fiction Book Portal appeared. And because they are new, many of them are making the books without enought care. Why they are using BD - it is also understandable: because it is easy to use. Вернуться к началу GribUser Автор формата FB2 - Автор библиотеки FB Зарегистрирован: 30.09.2004 Сообщения: 2475 Откуда: Москва Добавлено: Сб Дек 17, 2005 4:43    Заголовок сообщения: vvv писал(а): because it is easy to use. Making a good book is not easy. You fool them, they do some "easy" job and we have what we have. Making a good library-oriented fb2 can not be easy. If it is - you must be missing something... forget it, for any way. Happy BD users are the only thing you care about. And let the whole world collapse. Вернуться к началу vvv Автор редактора BookDesigner Зарегистрирован: 06.10.2004 Сообщения: 349 Добавлено: Вс Дек 18, 2005 1:32    Заголовок сообщения: GribUser писал(а): Making a good library-oriented fb2 can not be easy. It is not easy at all if one uses Any2FB2. It is a little bit less hard if one uses FB Tools. But it is not a case when you are talking about BD (besides, you know just a little bit of it): it has all the necessary tools to make fb2 books easily. Using those tools, one can create a good-looking and well-formatted book quite fast (even in the case when the initial text is a shit). You know perfectly well that the problem of your library is the mentality of the people creating the books. Many of them (especially new ones) do not pay any attention to the book quality. But instead of to educate them you are trying to find your enemy in BD. Well, it is quit understandable: even a fast comparison of Any2FB2 with BD immediately shows "who is who"... But let us imagine that a miracle has happened and all the unexperienced BD users started to create fb2 books with Any2FB2 . Poor library, in the best case - full up of the books with broken paragraphs and short sentences replaced by verses... In the worst case (for example, when they will try to use RegExp in background)... ufff, it is better not to think... Try to think about this leaving aside your ambitions... Вернуться к началу GribUser Автор формата FB2 - Автор библиотеки FB Зарегистрирован: 30.09.2004 Сообщения: 2475 Откуда: Москва Добавлено: Вс Дек 18, 2005 10:25    Заголовок сообщения: vvv писал(а): It is not easy at all if one uses Any2FB2. It is a little bit less hard if one uses FB Tools. But it is not a case when you are talking about BD Mu-ha-ha. That's why noone can make a good book with BD and most of Any2FB/FBTools books are quite good. Now I understand. Thank you for opening my eyes. Добавлено спустя 6 минут 59 секунд: vvv писал(а): But let us imagine that a miracle has happened and all the unexperienced BD users started to create fb2 books with Any2FB2 This will not happen ever, 80% of shit-makers will simply exit then, and that will solve al least half of the problems. Otheres are at least educatable so we will deal with them somehow. I admit any2fb is far from perfect, but that's a tool many peoples use and thouse people get quite a nice results. Quite simple, why don't you see it? кстати тебе стоит сравнить http://www.fictionbook.org/ru/docs/make_book.html и http://www.fictionbook.org/ru/docs/make_book_BD4.html посмотри, чему учу людей я и чему учишь ты. Сравни. YOU teach your users yourself, don't you? So they do as you say and we get all thouse shit. Вернуться к началу vvv Автор редактора BookDesigner Зарегистрирован: 06.10.2004 Сообщения: 349 Добавлено: Пн Дек 19, 2005 21:36    Заголовок сообщения: GribUser писал(а): vvv писал(а): It is not easy at all if one uses Any2FB2. It is a little bit less hard if one uses FB Tools. But it is not a case when you are talking about BD Mu-ha-ha. That's why noone can make a good book with BD and most of Any2FB/FBTools books are quite good. Now I understand. Thank you for opening my eyes. Добавлено спустя 6 минут 59 секунд: vvv писал(а): But let us imagine that a miracle has happened and all the unexperienced BD users started to create fb2 books with Any2FB2 This will not happen ever, 80% of shit-makers will simply exit then, and that will solve al least half of the problems. Otheres are at least educatable so we will deal with them somehow. I admit any2fb is far from perfect, but that's a tool many peoples use and thouse people get quite a nice results. Quite simple, why don't you see it? кстати тебе стоит сравнить http://www.fictionbook.org/ru/docs/make_book.html и http://www.fictionbook.org/ru/docs/make_book_BD4.html посмотри, чему учу людей я и чему учишь ты. Сравни. YOU teach your users yourself, don't you? So they do as you say and we get all thouse shit. If you are REALLY worrying about the book quality in your library rather than about a proud number in "Any of 8205 books as html, txt, rtf, rb, iSilo, prc or fb2!", there are two ways (instead of the senseless search of the black cat in a dark room). A simple one. Convert your "open-for-everybody publishing house" into the "for members only" one. And accept new members if and only if they have proven their abilities to create high-quality books. A complicated one. Do as they did in the respectful libraries: organize the page proof service. Yes, it is not easy, but it will resolve your problem. Especially if you will teach those people how to use a lot of proofing tools taking place in BD and FBD. P.S. For a long time I was downloading nothing from fictionbook.lib. But today being in a hurry with the book preparation for my trip, I have got this one (besides, without any selection, the first one what I have got) http://www.fictionbook.ru/en/author/zlotnikov_roman/berserker_1_myatej_na_okraine_galaktiki/ Just look, what I have found in this fb2. At the very beginning: <p><strong>Роман ЗЛОТНИКОВ,</strong></p> (pay attention to the author last name case and to the coma position) Then, the whole book title is upper-cased: МЯТЕЖ НА ОКРАИНЕ ГАЛАКТИКИ Then, all the titles are in italic. Like this one: Часть I, СРЕДИ ГРЯЗИ И ПРАХА Well, now I am looking at the description: Programs used: Haali ExportXML, MS Word macros.. Or you will tell me that it was a BD job? But a bad guy who created this book did not add it to the "Programs used" . On purpose... . Well, I do not want to spend more time enumerating other drawbacks of this fb2 (like not defined subtitles, broken paragraphs, etc). I want just to add that I got tired correcting all this shit. So I have killed this fb2 without any pitty. And then I have desided to do as usually: namely, to download the same book in rtf from fenzin. And with this book practically everything was ok. Proofing, proofing and again proofing - it is what your library needs. Better, if with BD proofing tools . Urgently... Вернуться к началу Test Гость Добавлено: Ср Дек 21, 2005 1:01    Заголовок сообщения: GribUser писал(а): If you want to make a good-looking fb2 for the library, do not use BD. Really. Yes!!! And don't use FBD, any2fb2 too!!! Use ONLY Notepad! It's great editor - in WinXP it works with UTF8 code too!!! 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